Ian Dunbar interview

While searching for growl classes mentioned in another article, I came across this interview with Ian Dunbar. There are other interviews linked at the top. I recognize Jean Donaldson and Joel Walton, so I must deduce the rest are noted dog behaviourists too.

Here's a couple of excerpts that stood out for me.

[pyr]
what are growl classes?

[Bazzer]
Classes where aggressive dogs get together to try to sort out their problems

[IanDunbar]
The whole thing about growl classes are that we have checked out all the dogs and the fight, and they are obnoxious but have not caused harm - not sent a dog to the vet the growl class therefore offers a safe forum (without embarrassment) for the owners and dogs to learn two things -1. How to control their dogs around other dogs all of the owners will learn this

[Bazzer]
That's about right. But they're wearing muzzles - just in case. What would you suggest if they lunge at each other

[IanDunbar]
2. some dogs will also learn to play off-leash, so we muzzle them (mainly for the owners sake) because none of these dogs have ever bitten and then we see what happens because the dogs have been tested to be safe we have many options

[pawsnlearn]
Do you hold them indoors or outdoors??

[Bazzer]
But if they lunge at each other while on lead, what should the owner do?

[IanDunbar]
to let them growl or scrap it out or to intervene - The best way to stop lunging or any obnoxious behavior is to praise the dog when it stops

[Bazzer]
Not shout or jerk the lead? How would they intervene?

[IanDunbar]
we can not do this in normal everyday living but we can in the growl class

[Gill123]
so a "set up" so to speak?

[IanDunbar]
By setting up a troubleshooting situation with one dog on leash and still and the other 7 walking by the dog will be exposed to the same dogs over and over the first few passes will be horrendous but what else is new we just ignore the dog's tantrums and wait - soon, usually after five or six passes the dog's enthusiasm for growling and lunging starts to wane. Now we can start praising the dog - Important point:

[Bazzer]
What about tethering the dog to a pipe or something sturdy and the owner moving away when he lunges?

[IanDunbar]
if we punish the dog for lunging or growling from the outset the approach of another dog becomes the contingent cue for our punishment - hence the dog will growl MORE - Once we have praised the dog for not lunging and for being quiet, this will not be the case and so then you may reprimand if you like I would never jerk or tighten the leash when doing this - no longer anyway - I used to but it just makes things worse


[pawsnlearn]
Do you find dogs get highly stressed in growl classes??

[IanDunbar]
Yes! - Initially it is very stressful for everyone and if a dog looks too stressed take it out immediately

[pawsnlearn]
So - how quickly do things chill down??

[IanDunbar]
But for most dogs it cracks me up, They are all growling and lunging on leash and the owners are sweating and then I say let them off leash and most of the dogs go quiet. In fact it gets very quiet. and usually a couple will sniff and even start to play. I should reiterate though that growl classes are only suitable for dogs that have not caused damage that's a whole different affair

[pawsnlearn]
We do this outside with a lot of space - never tried indoors

[pyr]
so, with these dogs it's all show? - what is different if they have caused damage?

[IanDunbar]
poor prognosis for them because they have not learned their bite inhibition in puppy hood

[pawsnlearn]
Yes .........

[IanDunbar]
The greater the number the fights the dog has had, usually the better the prognosis. If they have caused damage, all you can really teach is for the owners to learn how to control their dogs around other dogs

[pyr]
more fights = better prognosis?

[IanDunbar]
But a lot of these dogs are relentless and a single one can ruin a good growl class

[pawsnlearn]
I can imagine

[IanDunbar]
More fights usually means no damage done unless the owner is a fool -Three fights lots of damage = poor prognosis

[pawsnlearn]
Do you run them indoors Ian??

[IanDunbar]
lots of fights and no damage = excellent prognosis because the dog is just scared and full of bluster

[pawsnlearn]
I mean a hall

[IanDunbar]
Look at Shogun on the videos ...... If you hear the growls and barks it is scary but...if you watch it without the sound you will see all the bent elbows, playraises, licks and playbows the dog obviously wants to play but dare not

* * * [well Kimo has done damage to me, and Miki and Nalu have attacked but I don't think damaged Kimo, physically anyway. And I don't think Kimo has damaged Hershey. But he sure hasn't learned bite inhibition. It ain't going to be easy.] * * *

[Tina1234]
I would like to know how to stop -self reinforced barking. i.e. one dog barking at the rest of the pack when they are resting

[IanDunbar]
I would probably feed each of the other dogs one piece of kibble for every time the other dog barked. I love doing things like that - gets attention quicker than anything then tell the barker to settle down and shush and after a while give all dogs a piece of kibble

[Gill123]
God I love your way of thinking!

[Tina1234]
umm ok ! I will give it a try thanks!

*** I wonder what would happen if try this when Keith barks from the window? ***